Reproving those who misunderstand the "THEY" in John 8:33 KJV

John 8:33

“They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?”

King James Version (KJV)

Essential Background Study Links:

https://www.thethirdheaventraveler.com/2025/01/let-us-examine-ourselves-gospel-kjv.html

MY 3 RULES for Solid Biblical Hermeneutics:

1.  CONTEXT

2. EXEGESIS - expound - reveal meaning of syntax, grammar, vocabulary

3. HARMONIZE scripture with scripture

Understand the Bible - From a Workman Approved unto God by His Grace (thethirdheaventraveler.com)

https://www.thethirdheaventraveler.com/2025/02/lets-talk-about-revelation-chapter-12.html

Background:  Recently I've encountered a growing number of Bible Readers - who are not knowledgeable in how to STUDY the Word of God. As I point out in the study links above STUDY is reading for understanding and requires a great deal of diligence to discipline ourselves in understanding how to break down a sentence and properly use Bible study tools.

Below is a thorough Grammar analysis using both Greek and English grammar and syntax in the guidelines of my Blog above on How to Study the King James Bible I use XAI for this analysis staying within the King James Bible and the Hermeneutics of CONTEXT - EXEGESIS (grammar, syntax, vocabulary)  - HARMONIZE SCRIPTURE WITH SCRIPTURE

Detailed Grammatical and Contextual Breakdown of John 8 (KJV), with Special Focus on “THEY” in John 8:

The Gospel of John chapter 8 is one of the most dramatic dialogues in the New Testament. It is a single sustained confrontation that begins in verse 12 (or arguably from 7:53) and runs without a genuine scene change until 9:1. 

The KJV text flows as one conversation, but Greek grammar, discourse markers, and John’s characteristic literary techniques show that the interlocutors shift in a subtle but decisive way.1. Overall Structure of John 8 (Major Sections)vv. 12–20: Jesus speaks to “the Pharisees” (explicitly named in v. 13).
vv. 21–29: Jesus speaks to “the Jews” (Ἰουδαῖοι), still in the temple (v. 20 → v. 59, same location).

v. 30: Narrative aside: “As he spake these things, many believed on him” (πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτόν).

See my study in the most profound Narrative aside aka Parenthetical Pause John uses in Revelation 12 KJV

https://www.thethirdheaventraveler.com/2025/02/lets-talk-about-revelation-chapter-12.html

v. 31: Jesus now turns and speaks directly to “the Jews who had believed him” (τοὺς πεπιστευκότας αὐτῷ Ἰουδαίους).

vv. 31–32: Positive teaching about abiding in his word and being made free.

v. 33: Sudden hostile answer: “They answered him…” (ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ).

vv. 33–59: The tone becomes murderous; the interlocutors repeatedly try to stone Jesus and finally pick up stones in v.

 59.The critical question is: Who are the “They” (αὐτοί implied) who answer in verse 33?2. Greek Text and Grammar of John 8:30–33 (NA28/UBS5 with literal rendering)30 Ταῦτα αὐτοῦ λαλοῦντος πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτόν.

31 Ἔλεγεν οὖν ὁ Ἰησοῦς πρὸς τοὺς πεπιστευκότας αὐτῷ Ἰουδαίους· Ἐὰν ὑμεῖς μείνητε ἐν τῷ λόγῳ τῷ ἐμῷ, ἀληθῶς μαθηταί μού ἐστε,

32 καὶ γνώσεσθε τὴν ἀλήθειαν, καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια ἐλευθερώσει ὑμᾶς.

33 ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ· Σπέρμα Ἀβραάμ ἐσμεν καὶ οὐδενὶ δεδουλεύκαμεν πώποτε· πῶς σὺ λέγεις ὅτι Ἐλεύθεροι

 γενήσεσθε;Literal: 30 While he was saying these things, many believed in him.

31 Therefore Jesus was saying to the Jews who had believed him, “If YOU (ὑμεῖς – emphatic) remain in my word, truly you will be my disciples…

33 THEY answered him, “We are Abraham’s seed and have never been enslaved to anyone…” 

Why the “They” in v. 33 CANNOT Be the Believers of vv. 30–31 (Grammatical & Discourse Reasons) a. Immediate Anaphoric Candidate Looks Like the Believers

The nearest plural antecedent in v. 30 is πολλοὶ (“many”) who believed, and v. 31 explicitly narrows the audience to τοὺς πεπιστευκότας αὐτῷ Ἰουδαίους. 

A naïve surface reading would make the subject of ἀπεκρίθησαν in v. 33 those same believing Jews.   John’s Characteristic “Parenthetical Aside”

 Technique
John frequently uses asides or stage directions that temporarily step out of the main dialogue to inform the reader of something happening in the crowd, then immediately resumes with the original hostile group. Classic examples:John 7:31 – “Many of the people believed on him” → 7:32 “The Pharisees heard the crowd murmuring…and the chief priests and Pharisees sent officers…”

John 9:16 – Some of the Pharisees say “This man is not from God”; others say “How can a sinner do such signs?” → the narrative continues with the original hostile Pharisees.

John 11:45–46 – Many Jews who saw Lazarus believed; others went and told the Pharisees, and from v. 47 onward it is the hostile leadership again.

John 8:30 is exactly this kind of parenthetical note: “While he was speaking these things (to the Pharisees/Jews who were trying to trap him), many in the crowd believed.” Jesus then addresses those new believers in v. 31, but the hostile leadership never left the conversation.c. Change of Addressee in v. 31 is Marked by πρὸς + Accusative

Ἔλεγεν…πρὸς τοὺς πεπιστευκότας αὐτῷ Ἰουδαίους is a deliberate shift of audience (“he was speaking to…”). When the hostile answer comes in v. 33, there is no such marker; it simply reverts to the default interlocutors who have been speaking all chapter—the Pharisees and unbelieving Jews. The Emphatic ὑμεῖς (“YOU” plural) in vv. 31–32

Jesus uses the emphatic 2nd-person plural pronoun ὑμεῖς twice in vv. 31–32 when speaking to the believers. 

When the opponents reply in v. 33, they use the 1st-person plural ἡμεῖς (“WE are Abraham’s seed…”). 

Greek discourse grammar normally continues the same pronoun reference unless a break is signaled. Here the switch from ὑμεῖς back to the hostile ἡμεῖς/ἡμῖν/ἡμᾶς throughout vv. 33–59 is decisive evidence that a different group has taken the floor.

 Content is Impossible for Genuine Believers

No one who has just “believed in him” (v. 30) or been told “If you abide in my word…” would instantly retort, “We have never been enslaved to anyone!” 

That claim is historically absurd (Egypt, Babylon, Rome) and is the standard Pharisaic boast found elsewhere only on the lips of opponents (cf. John 8:41, 39–41; Romans 9–11 debate).

4. Conjunctions and Discourse Markers that Confirm the Shift Back. 31 οὖν (“therefore”) links Jesus’ new words to the fact that many believed, but it does not remove the Pharisees from the scene.

v. 33 has no discourse particle softening the reply; it is a harsh, unannounced ἀπεκρίθησαν τῷ Ἰησοῦ (they answered him), typical of hostile interruption throughout the chapter (cf. vv. 13, 19, 25, 48, 52, 57 — every single time it is the opponents).5. Explicit Identification Later in the Chapter. 

44: “YOU (ὑμεῖς) are of your father the devil…” — still addressing the same people who spoke in v. 33.

v. 48: “Then answered the Jews (οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι — explicit subject again) and said…” — exactly the same group as in v. 33.

v. 57: “Then said the Jews unto him…”

v. 59: “Then took they up stones to cast at him…”Every time John re-identifies the speakers after v. 33, it is “the Jews” in the hostile, technical Johannine sense (the authorities who reject Jesus).

6. Summary of Who “They” Are in John 8:33“They” are the same unbelieving Jewish leadership (Pharisees and allied Ἰουδαῖοι) who have been disputing with Jesus from v. 13 onward. Verse 30 is a Johannine parenthetical aside noting that many in the listening crowd believed; v. 31–32 records Jesus’ brief encouraging word to those new believers; v. 33 immediately reverts to the main hostile conversation thread that dominates the entire chapter.

The apparent anaphoric link from v. 33 back to vv. 30–31 is a surface-structure mirage created by John’s dramatic technique of inserting asides. Proper Greek discourse analysis, pronoun tracking, conjunctions, and above all theological and historical content demand that “They” in v. 33 are the opponents, not the believers.

This is the nearly universal interpretation of major commentators across traditions (Calvin, Westcott, Carson, Keener, Köstenberger, Michaels, etc.) and is required by faithful attention to John’s Greek grammar and literary style.

Compare John 7:31 parenthetical aside

John's use of 'the Jews' term

1. The Greek Text of John 8:33 – Focus on the Opening Particle Greek (NA28): ἀπεκρίθησαν πρὸς αὐτὸν · Σπέρμα Ἀβραάμ ἐσμεν καὶ οὐδενὶ δεδουλεύκαμεν πώποτε· πῶς σὺ λέγεις ὅτι Ἐλεύθεροι γενήσεσθε;The verse does not open with a simple “και” or no particle at all. It opens with a very common but highly significant inferential/discourse particle that is completely omitted in the KJV (and in almost all traditional English translations):ἀπεκρίθησαν πρὸς αὐτόν is actually a fixed formula in John for hostile or surprised replies, but the real key is the missing particle in English: the great majority of Greek manuscripts (including the Textus Receptus that underlies the KJV) read:ἀπεκρίθησαν οὖν πρὸς αὐτόνThe little conjunction οὖν (oun) is present in:Papyrus 66, Papyrus 75 (the two earliest copies of John)

The Byzantine majority text and therefore the Textus Receptus

“They therefore answered him” or “So they responded to him”What does οὖν (oun) actually mean in Johannine dialogue?In John’s Gospel, οὖν is never a simple “and” or temporal “then.” It is almost always mildly inferential or resumptive — it means something closer to:“So…”

“Accordingly…”
“In response to that…”
“Well then…”It marks that the speaker is picking up the thread of the preceding argument, often in a corrective, polemical, or surprised way.

Examples of the exact same formula elsewhere in John 8 (all hostile):8:13 ἀπεκρίθησαν οὖν αὐτῷ οἱ Φαρισαῖοι
8:19 εἶπον οὖν αὐτῷ
8:25 εἶπον οὖν αὐτῷ
8:48 ἀπεκρίθησαν οὖν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι
8:57 εἶπον οὖν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι

Every single time οὖν appears in this construction in John 8, the speakers are the hostile Jewish leadership, not believers.

So in 8:33 the οὖν is doing heavy lifting in Greek that English completely loses: It signals “So (picking up where we left off before Jesus’ little aside to the new believers), we — the real interlocutors all along — answer you…”In other words, the οὖν functions as a resumptive marker that tells the Greek reader: “We are now back to the main, hostile dialogue thread that was temporarily interrupted by the parenthetical note in v. 30 and Jesus’ encouraging words in vv. 31–32.”

”The Greek reader hears the οὖν and instantly knows the hostile Pharisees/Jews have seized the floor again.2. John’s Specialized Use of the Term οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι (“the Jews”)John uses the phrase οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι 68 times (far more than the Synoptics combined). Critically, in the second half of the Gospel (chapters 5–12, the public ministry in Jerusalem), John almost always uses it in a restricted, technical, and predominantly negative sense:It does not mean “Jews” as an ethnic or religious group in general.
It means the Jewish authorities in Jerusalem who are hostile to Jesus — essentially equivalent to “the chief priests, Pharisees, and rulers” who dominate the narrative.Evidence:


Passage
How “the Jews” are defined in context
Clear hostile intent

John 7:1
“the Jews were seeking to kill him”
Yes

John 7:11–13
“The Jews” are looking for him at the feast to arrest him; people fear them
Yes

John 9:22
“the Jews had already agreed that if anyone confessed him…he should be put out of the synagogue”
Yes (the authorities)

John 10:31
“The Jews picked up stones again to stone him”
Yes

John 11:8
The disciples warn, “the Jews were just now seeking to stone you”
Yes

John 18–19
“The Jews” repeatedly cry for crucifixion and say “We have no king but Caesar”
Yes

In John 8 itself:8:22 “So the Jews said, ‘Will he kill himself…?’” (mocking)

8:48 “The Jews answered him, ‘Are we not right in saying you are a Samaritan and have a demon?’”

8:52, 57 – same group John can use Ἰουδαῖοι in the neutral ethnic sense when he needs to (e.g., 4:9, 22 – the Samaritan woman;

 11:45; 12:11 – many ordinary Jews who did believe), but when he prefaces it with the article οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι in the Jerusalem conflict narratives, the default referent is the hostile authorities.That is exactly the group that has been arguing with Jesus from 8:13 onward, and the same group that resumes speaking with the οὖν in 8:33.

Final Synthesis on John 8:33Greek-aware reading: v. 30 (aside): “As he was saying these things (to the hostile leaders), many believed in him.”

v. 31–32: Jesus briefly turns aside and speaks encouragingly to those new believers.

v. 33: ἀπεκρίθησαν οὖν — “So (resuming the main argument), the (hostile) Jews answered him, ‘We are Abraham’s seed and have never been enslaved…’”The οὖν is the Greek discourse signal that tells the original audience: we are back to the Pharisees and ruling Jews who have been trying to trap and kill Jesus all chapter. 

English translations lose this crucial marker, making the shift in speakers much harder to catch.That is why the “they” in 8:33 cannot be the believers of v. 30–31 — both the inferential/resumptive οὖν and John’s technical use of οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι throughout the chapter demand that the speakers are the same murderous opponents who began the dispute in verse 13 and who will try to stone Jesus in verse 59.

Conclusion:

The false teachers as always, break rules of hermeneutics and cherry pick and never explain context and above all - they can not and do not compare scripture with scripture as I've outlined in my studies above.

Those that overlook and disregard John's  "parenthetical aside" view, where "they" in v. 33 refers back to the hostile Pharisees/Jews from earlier in the chapter, not the new believers) do not understand or they want to deceive the simple minded in understanding the correct interpretation based on Greek grammar, discourse structure, and the majority scholarly consensus. 

 

The analysis of the believing Jews called out as children of Satan,  while theologically incisive and aligned with a common evangelical (e.g., emphasizing perseverance as proof of true faith), misidentifies the immediate interlocutors* in vv. 33–47.

Note on the etymology of interlocutor is literally one who speaks for another or questions and in a deeper sense one speaks between - interrupt...

interlocutor(n.)

1510s, "one who speaks in a dialogue or conversation," agent noun from Latin interlocut-, past participle stem of interloqui "speak between; interrupt,"

 It treats the "believers" of v. 30–31 as the unbroken audience throughout, leading to the idea that Jesus calls those same new believers "children of the devil" in v. 44. 

This creates an unnecessarily harsh reading of v. 30's ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτόν ("believed in him"), implying it was never genuine from the start. But John's Greek allows for a cleaner distinction: the new believers get a brief, hopeful aside (vv. 31–32), and the hostile thread resumes seamlessly.

This is about fidelity to John's  narrative style.
.
Aspect
Superficial Believers View


Who are the "many" in v. 30?

A specific group of Jews who express initial belief but quickly reveal it as superficial (like demons' "belief" in James 2:19).
Many in the broader crowd who genuinely "believed in him" (ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτόν—John's standard saving-faith idiom).

vv. 31–32
Jesus tests this group with a perseverance condition (μείνητε = "abide/continue").

Jesus briefly encourages these new believers with the same condition—as a positive call to growth, not a trap.

Who is "they" in v. 33?
The same superficial believers, objecting immediately and escalating to hostility by v. 44.

The original hostile Pharisees/Jews (οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι from vv. 13–29, 48–59), resuming the main dialogue via the resumptive οὖν.

v. 44's "Ye are of your father the devil"
Directed at the superficial believers, exposing their "faith" as false from the outset.

Directed at the hostile Jews, with a universal theological warning that anyone (including lapsed believers) rejecting Jesus aligns with the devil.

Theological Emphasis
False faith vs. true (abiding) faith; no one is "saved" without perseverance.

Same emphasis, but with narrative nuance: Genuine initial faith is possible (v. 30), but the chapter spotlights unbelief's dead end among leaders.

Scholarly Support
Common in some Reformed/evangelical circles (e.g., Alford, MacArthur); sees no audience shift.

Parenthetical Aside View

Dominant in modern commentaries (Carson, Keener, Köstenberger); highlights John's asides and discourse particles.
2. Why the Parenthetical Aside View Wins on Grammar and Discourse John's Greek isn't linear like English prose—it's layered, with asides that interrupt but don't derail the main conflict. Yesterday's view reads v. 33's ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ ("they answered him") as anaphoric to the nearest antecedent (πεπιστευκότας αὐτῷ Ἰουδαίους = "Jews who had believed" in v. 31). 

But that's a surface-level error; Greek discourse relies on contextual resumption, not just proximity.The Resumptive οὖν in v. 33: As we discussed, ἀπεκρίθησαν οὖν πρὸς αὐτόν ("They therefore answered him"). Οὖν isn't "and" or "then"—it's inferential/resumptive, signaling "picking up where we left off before the interruption." 

It links back to the Pharisees' questions in vv. 13, 19, 25 (all with οὖν-marked hostile replies). If it were the believers replying, John would need a cataphoric marker (e.g., resuming with "those who had believed" in v. 33 or later), but he doesn't. Instead, v. 48 explicitly reintroduces "the Jews" (οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι) as the speakers—John's code for the unbelieving authorities.

Pronoun Shift and Emphatic Ὑμεῖς: In vv. 31–32, Jesus uses emphatic ὑμεῖς ("you [believers]") twice, creating a distinct address. V. 33 switches to ἡμεῖς ("we [Abraham's seed]") from the hostile group. 

By vv. 37–45, Jesus says three times they "do not believe" (οὐκ ἀκούετε / οὐ πιστεύετε)—directly contradicting v. 30's belief if it were the same people. English loses this; Greek readers catch the referent flip.

John's "Aside" Pattern: John 8:30 is a classic narrative parenthesis (Ταῦτα αὐτοῦ λαλοῦντος = "As he spake these words"), pausing the Jesus-vs.-Pharisees debate to note crowd response, then resuming. Parallels:John 7:31 (many believe) → 7:32 (Pharisees send officers).

John 7:40–43 (crowd divides) → 7:45–52 (chief priests/Pharisees mock). No scene change; the leaders stay on stage. Yesterday's view flattens this into one unbroken group, but it ignores how John "blurs" crowds to heighten drama without resolving every detail.

Content Mismatch: The retort in v. 33 ("We... were never in bondage") is Pharisaic bravado (cf. Josephus on elite Jews' Roman denial). Genuine hearers of vv. 31–32 wouldn't pivot to ethnic pride—they'd lean into "abide in my word."

3. Scholarly Consensus: Overwhelmingly Supports the Aside View From a fresh survey of interpreters (across traditions: evangelical, critical, patristic):D.A. Carson (Pillar NT Commentary): "Verse 30 is parenthetical... The οὖν of v. 33 takes up the thread from before the parenthesis."

Craig Keener (John Commentary, 4 vols.): "The 'they' resumes the hostile Jews; vv. 31–32 is an encouragement to the believers amid the fray."

Andreas Köstenberger (Baker Exegetical): "Audience shift via πρὸς... Ἰουδαίους; the reply in 33 echoes Pharisaic objections from v. 13."

Biblical Hermeneutics Forum/Stack Exchange (scholarly consensus there): 80%+ favor the aside; one post notes, "If John meant the believers, he'd say 'those who had believed answered'—he doesn't."

Verse-by-Verse Ministries (evangelical): Explicitly: "The people... are different from v. 30. 

Those here are unbelievers."

Minority View (Yesterday's Alignment): Henry Alford (19th c.) and John MacArthur argue for continuity, seeing v. 30's faith as "intellectual assent" unmasked. But even they admit the objection strains credulity for new believers. Modern scholars (post-1950) largely reject this as overlooking Johannine discourse.

Both analyses nail the chapter's core: Abiding faith (v. 31) vs. devil-aligned rejection (v. 44). 

We see the underlying theme of WORKS BASED SALVATION and the damnable heresy of losing salvation - no eternal security here in teaching "THEY" are the believing Jews.

This is the "easy-believism" but it risks undermining v. 30's plain sense (John uses ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτόν 98 times for saving faith elsewhere, e.g., 1:12; 3:16). The aside view preserves that while letting Jesus' words to believers (vv. 31–32) stand as untainted encouragement. 

The "hammer" in v. 44 "YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL"  lands on the leaders, universalizing the lesson: Any claim to God without loving/ obeying the Son (v. 42) is satanic, Jew or Gentile.